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 Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?

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DemonWolf
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PostSubject: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:49 pm

http://www.nowgamer.com/columns/general/466/cant-be-done-on-360-what-does-it-even-mean


Good read. Also perfect dark zero can't be done on ps3 lolololol
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PostSubject: Re: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:57 pm

That article is full of truth. Very good read.
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PostSubject: Re: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:56 am

lol jubjub always comments on every DDD topic lol
but seriously i think the article was really clever and full of truth
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PostSubject: Re: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:51 am

The funny thing is about that article is, for some sites i view when the PS3 devs talked about the main reason it could not be done on the 360 was not even the Cell... it was the lack of Blu-Ray and built-in HDD on ALL 360's. Cuz you know, the Blu-Ray bussiness is kinda difficult if its only through the disc...

Either way, to me the vistas in Uncharted 2 had already been beat up by Alan Wake, in terns of a exclusive title that is. And maybe is just my eyes, when i was replaying UC2 last night and i was in the top of the hotel, i looked 360ยบ and honestly it didn't look that great. I mean it looked like the mountains and trees, after the city were kinda flat, like a cardboard scenario lolololol. I didn't notice on a SDTV but now at HD it pop it out.

The community? There is no one bigger than XBL, and that is well, objective fact.
I didn't understand also the mans point there with LBP. Sure XBL is restrictive but is to the outside world. I mean can't you create and share and even "sell" stuff to other players on games like Forza Motorsport 3?




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PostSubject: Re: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:54 am

PS: I'm not saying that UC2 has bad graphics in any way, what i'm saying is that it not the champion to this day.
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PostSubject: Re: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:33 pm

The bottleneck of a PS3 is it's assy GPU and it's memory in-efficiency. The bottleneck of the X360 is the DVD storage limit. Developers can work around the X360's bottleneck by using multiple discs. You can't however improve the performance specs of the RSX without new hardware. Besides that, X360 game developers store textures via RAM not disc content. The only games this generation that needed more than 1 disc were RPGs and games with a shit ton of content (Forza 3, even though technically the 2nd disc was optional install.)
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PostSubject: Re: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:54 pm

daveMastaKill wrote:
PS: I'm not saying that UC2 has bad graphics in any way, what i'm saying is that it not the champion to this day.

I never though UC2 had that great of graphics, just a great draw distance.
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PostSubject: Re: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:57 pm

to me it means "the IP is owned by sony, making it impossible on 360"

not because of tech issues, but because of politics.

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PostSubject: Re: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:42 pm

are there games that aren't possible on the PS3, I'm guessing Gears of War 1-3
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PostSubject: Re: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:46 pm

resistance354 wrote:
are there games that aren't possible on the PS3, I'm guessing Gears of War 1-3

GeoW 1-3 use the Unreal Engine so yes they would be possible. But GeoW is a flagship title for MS and Im sure they have paid alot money to keep it exclusive.

I would'nt be suprised if they tried to buy the IP for future projects.
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PostSubject: Re: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:51 pm

xSTONEYx187x wrote:
resistance354 wrote:
are there games that aren't possible on the PS3, I'm guessing Gears of War 1-3

GeoW 1-3 use the Unreal Engine so yes they would be possible. But GeoW is a flagship title for MS and Im sure they have paid alot money to keep it exclusive.

I would'nt be suprised if they tried to buy the IP for future projects.

I understand that but doesn't GeoW use most of GPU's power, and since the 360's GPU is stronger than the PS3's GPU then how is it possible
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PostSubject: Re: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:16 pm

resistance354 wrote:
xSTONEYx187x wrote:
resistance354 wrote:
are there games that aren't possible on the PS3, I'm guessing Gears of War 1-3

GeoW 1-3 use the Unreal Engine so yes they would be possible. But GeoW is a flagship title for MS and Im sure they have paid alot money to keep it exclusive.

I would'nt be suprised if they tried to buy the IP for future projects.

I understand that but doesn't GeoW use most of GPU's power, and since the 360's GPU is stronger than the PS3's GPU then how is it possible

But the PS3 has a superior CPU used to take some of the load off of the GPU. It could be done after some tweaking
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PostSubject: Re: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:17 pm

xSTONEYx187x wrote:
resistance354 wrote:
are there games that aren't possible on the PS3, I'm guessing Gears of War 1-3

GeoW 1-3 use the Unreal Engine so yes they would be possible. But GeoW is a flagship title for MS and Im sure they have paid alot money to keep it exclusive.

I would'nt be suprised if they tried to buy the IP for future projects.

Isn't GeoW owned by Microsoft anyways? So it couldnt go to anything but a Microsoft system
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PostSubject: Re: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:34 pm

TheJubJub57212 wrote:
xSTONEYx187x wrote:
resistance354 wrote:
are there games that aren't possible on the PS3, I'm guessing Gears of War 1-3

GeoW 1-3 use the Unreal Engine so yes they would be possible. But GeoW is a flagship title for MS and Im sure they have paid alot money to keep it exclusive.

I would'nt be suprised if they tried to buy the IP for future projects.

Isn't GeoW owned by Microsoft anyways? So it couldnt go to anything but a Microsoft system

No Gears is a second party exclusive. It means that Gears of War is published by MGS, but the IP is owned by Epic. Epic Games could put it on the PS3, but all 3 games are published by Microsoft. So if Epic wanted to they could make some Gears of War spinoff published by EA and make it multi, but Gears 1-3 will never make it to the PS3 even though owned by Epic, they made a publishing deal with Microsoft that any game published by MGS will be 360 exclusive.
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PostSubject: Re: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:36 pm

BlackStigma wrote:
TheJubJub57212 wrote:
xSTONEYx187x wrote:
resistance354 wrote:
are there games that aren't possible on the PS3, I'm guessing Gears of War 1-3

GeoW 1-3 use the Unreal Engine so yes they would be possible. But GeoW is a flagship title for MS and Im sure they have paid alot money to keep it exclusive.

I would'nt be suprised if they tried to buy the IP for future projects.

Isn't GeoW owned by Microsoft anyways? So it couldnt go to anything but a Microsoft system

No Gears is a second party exclusive. It means that Gears of War is published by MGS, but the IP is owned by Epic. Epic Games could put it on the PS3, but all 3 games are published by Microsoft. So if Epic wanted to they could make some Gears of War spinoff published by EA and make it multi, but Gears 1-3 will never make it to the PS3 even though owned by Epic, they made a publishing deal with Microsoft that any game published by MGS will be 360 exclusive.

Oh ok. I got it now. So if they make like a GeoW prequel but publish through EA they could put it on PS3? I see now.
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PostSubject: Re: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:00 pm

TheJubJub57212 wrote:
resistance354 wrote:
xSTONEYx187x wrote:
resistance354 wrote:
are there games that aren't possible on the PS3, I'm guessing Gears of War 1-3

GeoW 1-3 use the Unreal Engine so yes they would be possible. But GeoW is a flagship title for MS and Im sure they have paid alot money to keep it exclusive.

I would'nt be suprised if they tried to buy the IP for future projects.

I understand that but doesn't GeoW use most of GPU's power, and since the 360's GPU is stronger than the PS3's GPU then how is it possible

But the PS3 has a superior CPU used to take some of the load off of the GPU. It could be done after some tweaking

At this stage of development, assuming that the Gears of War franchise have been using the same modified Unreal Engine for the Xbox 360, a Gears of War game at the same level of the X360 version would take years of development. The modified Engine they are using takes advantage of the X360's architecture. Only possibility would be the PC since it's architecture is structured simularly. The Mass Effect franchise also uses a modified engine worked around the X360. A quick port of ME2 or Gears to the PS3 would be like Bayonetta.

It's this very same reason that Sony's Golden boys say that Uncharted or God of War can't be done on the X360. Although with time and resources, it IS possible.
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PostSubject: Re: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:17 pm

Alan1994 wrote:
TheJubJub57212 wrote:
resistance354 wrote:
xSTONEYx187x wrote:
resistance354 wrote:
are there games that aren't possible on the PS3, I'm guessing Gears of War 1-3

GeoW 1-3 use the Unreal Engine so yes they would be possible. But GeoW is a flagship title for MS and Im sure they have paid alot money to keep it exclusive.

I would'nt be suprised if they tried to buy the IP for future projects.

I understand that but doesn't GeoW use most of GPU's power, and since the 360's GPU is stronger than the PS3's GPU then how is it possible

But the PS3 has a superior CPU used to take some of the load off of the GPU. It could be done after some tweaking

At this stage of development, assuming that the Gears of War franchise have been using the same modified Unreal Engine for the Xbox 360, a Gears of War game at the same level of the X360 version would take years of development. The modified Engine they are using takes advantage of the X360's architecture. Only possibility would be the PC since it's architecture is structured simularly. The Mass Effect franchise also uses a modified engine worked around the X360. A quick port of ME2 or Gears to the PS3 would be like Bayonetta.

It's this very same reason that Sony's Golden boys say that Uncharted or God of War can't be done on the X360. Although with time and resources, it IS possible.

Yup, just like I said. With some tweaks, it would be possible.
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PostSubject: Re: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:51 pm

TheJubJub57212 wrote:
Alan1994 wrote:
TheJubJub57212 wrote:
resistance354 wrote:
xSTONEYx187x wrote:
resistance354 wrote:
are there games that aren't possible on the PS3, I'm guessing Gears of War 1-3

GeoW 1-3 use the Unreal Engine so yes they would be possible. But GeoW is a flagship title for MS and Im sure they have paid alot money to keep it exclusive.

I would'nt be suprised if they tried to buy the IP for future projects.

I understand that but doesn't GeoW use most of GPU's power, and since the 360's GPU is stronger than the PS3's GPU then how is it possible

But the PS3 has a superior CPU used to take some of the load off of the GPU. It could be done after some tweaking

At this stage of development, assuming that the Gears of War franchise have been using the same modified Unreal Engine for the Xbox 360, a Gears of War game at the same level of the X360 version would take years of development. The modified Engine they are using takes advantage of the X360's architecture. Only possibility would be the PC since it's architecture is structured simularly. The Mass Effect franchise also uses a modified engine worked around the X360. A quick port of ME2 or Gears to the PS3 would be like Bayonetta.

It's this very same reason that Sony's Golden boys say that Uncharted or God of War can't be done on the X360. Although with time and resources, it IS possible.

Yup, just like I said. With some tweaks, it would be possible.

Yeah!
Thing is, I may be wrong but from what I've seen on both systems, here are the flaws of both:

Ps3 - doesn't have the best texture detail even in the best looking games. Sure it has amazing graphics but texture detail wise, I've so far not seen one game that looks as good as Perfect Dark Zero on 360. Neutral
360 - It has late texture pop-in. Or whatever it's called...
It happens in Gears, Mass Effect and probably more games I can't remember right now but I think it can handle better detail up close.

So..... I reckon that if most 360 exclusives were ported to ps3, there may be a sliiiight, tinny difference in texture details.
And if 360 got ps3 exclusives they may have that texture pop in.

Neither is that bad tbh.
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PostSubject: Re: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:58 pm

demondragondude wrote:
TheJubJub57212 wrote:
Alan1994 wrote:
TheJubJub57212 wrote:
resistance354 wrote:
xSTONEYx187x wrote:
resistance354 wrote:
are there games that aren't possible on the PS3, I'm guessing Gears of War 1-3

GeoW 1-3 use the Unreal Engine so yes they would be possible. But GeoW is a flagship title for MS and Im sure they have paid alot money to keep it exclusive.

I would'nt be suprised if they tried to buy the IP for future projects.

I understand that but doesn't GeoW use most of GPU's power, and since the 360's GPU is stronger than the PS3's GPU then how is it possible

But the PS3 has a superior CPU used to take some of the load off of the GPU. It could be done after some tweaking

At this stage of development, assuming that the Gears of War franchise have been using the same modified Unreal Engine for the Xbox 360, a Gears of War game at the same level of the X360 version would take years of development. The modified Engine they are using takes advantage of the X360's architecture. Only possibility would be the PC since it's architecture is structured simularly. The Mass Effect franchise also uses a modified engine worked around the X360. A quick port of ME2 or Gears to the PS3 would be like Bayonetta.

It's this very same reason that Sony's Golden boys say that Uncharted or God of War can't be done on the X360. Although with time and resources, it IS possible.

Yup, just like I said. With some tweaks, it would be possible.

Yeah!
Thing is, I may be wrong but from what I've seen on both systems, here are the flaws of both:

Ps3 - doesn't have the best texture detail even in the best looking games. Sure it has amazing graphics but texture detail wise, I've so far not seen one game that looks as good as Perfect Dark Zero on 360. Neutral
360 - It has late texture pop-in. Or whatever it's called...
It happens in Gears, Mass Effect and probably more games I can't remember right now but I think it can handle better detail up close.

So..... I reckon that if most 360 exclusives were ported to ps3, there may be a sliiiight, tinny difference in texture details.
And if 360 got ps3 exclusives they may have that texture pop in.

Neither is that bad tbh.

The texture pop-in you sometimes see has something to do with the Unreal Engine. Unreal Engine games on the PS3 also have this issue.
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PostSubject: Re: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:10 pm

At this point in time, any game for either console can be played on either one.

Any dev saying other wise is just doing it for fluff.
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PostSubject: Re: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:12 pm

My honest opinion is based on 2 things:

A) Blu Ray: Take MGS4 for example that takes up 39GB of space, if you include MS protection and redundent assests, that gives the developer about 5GB per disc if its a multidisc game(unless its like Forza 3 or ODST). So MGS4 would have to be put on 8 discs and that would seriously put a hole in the dev's pocket.

B) The CELL Processor: I think this plays a slight role because in games like Uncharted and God Of War, the CELL is used to hadle jobs other components can't hadle just by themselves because its a multicore CPU, unlike the 360's singlecore CPU. And with those extra cores the CELL can handle things such as graphics beyond what the GPU can handle.

The main arguement in the matter is Size.
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PostSubject: Re: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:26 pm

Freemon34-YT wrote:
My honest opinion is based on 2 things:

A) Blu Ray: Take MGS4 for example that takes up 39GB of space, if you include MS protection and redundent assests, that gives the developer about 5GB per disc if its a multidisc game(unless its like Forza 3 or ODST). So MGS4 would have to be put on 8 discs and that would seriously put a hole in the dev's pocket.

B) The CELL Processor: I think this plays a slight role because in games like Uncharted and God Of War, the CELL is used to hadle jobs other components can't hadle just by themselves because its a multicore CPU, unlike the 360's singlecore CPU. And with those extra cores the CELL can handle things such as graphics beyond what the GPU can handle.

The main arguement in the matter is Size.

Sorry bud, but there is too many things wrong with what you said.

A) The large bulk of the content in MGS4 is duplicated data and cinematic cutscene vids, kind of like FFXIII (6.8 GBs game content, 32 GBs cutscenes). With better compression and use of the X360's architecture strengths like the eDRAM and such they could make the game fit on one disc. An Xbox 360 game disc can store 6.8 GBs of game content. Which is more than enough for MOST games. If games need more than one disc, oh well. >.> You probably watched Wipeout's "The conclusion of MGS4 on the Xbox 360" or something like that, where he spreads unsupported conspiracies with a bunch of technical jargon that hardly makes sense to the less tech savy (He said MGS4 would take like 17 discs on the Xbox 360 >.>).

B) Teh CELLL!!! No but seriously. The Xbox 360's Xenon Processor is composed of 3 cores, and the Cell is composed of 1 core and 5 usable SPEs for game purposes. In terms of power the Cell is only better than the Xenon by a very small margian. However the Cell can be used for multiple GPU processes while it is much much harder to do so on the Xenon Processor. Your theory about the Cell tipping the balance falls short when you consider the fact that the Xenos GPU (Xbox 360) is twice as strong as the RSX GPU (PS3).

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PostSubject: Re: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:54 pm

Alan1994 wrote:

Sorry bud, but there is too many things wrong with what you said.

A) The large bulk of the content in MGS4 is duplicated data and cinematic cutscene vids, kind of like FFXIII (6.8 GBs game content, 32 GBs cutscenes). With better compression and use of the X360's architecture strengths like the eDRAM and such they could make the game fit on one disc. An Xbox 360 game disc can store 6.8 GBs of game content. Which is more than enough for MOST games. If games need more than one disc, oh well. >.> You probably watched Wipeout's "The conclusion of MGS4 on the Xbox 360" or something like that, where he spreads unsupported conspiracies with a bunch of technical jargon that hardly makes sense to the less tech savy (He said MGS4 would take like 17 discs on the Xbox 360 >.>).

B) Teh CELLL!!! No but seriously. The Xbox 360's Xenon Processor is composed of 3 cores, and the Cell is composed of 1 core and 5 usable SPEs for game purposes. In terms of power the Cell is only better than the Xenon by a very small margian. However the Cell can be used for multiple GPU processes while it is much much harder to do so on the Xenon Processor. Your theory about the Cell tipping the balance falls short when you consider the fact that the Xenos GPU (Xbox 360) is twice as strong as the RSX GPU (PS3).


A) Yeah, I watched Wipeout's vid like a year ago or something and couldn't even care less because he said stuff like MS putting more protecton on multiple discs or some BS like that. Any way, the eDRAM in the 360 doesn't cut down on the space needed, what the eDRAM in the 360 does is render video that usually streams in a lower resolution and make it run in a higher resolution. Look at RDR, the PS3 version runs in 576p, but do to the eDRAM in the 360, its 720p. and if you do the math right where redundent assets take up almost 2 GBs of a disk and protection software takes up another 2 GBs, that gives them 5 GBs at most for a 9GB duel layer DVD. Meaning a 39GB game like MGS would take Discs. Also, the PS3 version of Final Fantasy took 32GB the 360 version was only 18 and do to the fact that the redundent assets were small they could fit it on 3 discs.

B) The CELL's PPE has a processing power of 3.2 GHz, the 360's 3 cores can also total up to 3.2 GHz, but the PS3 has a SPE which reads security data constantly, one SPE for mandated for the XMB, and 5 SPE's that the devopers can use to their heart's content. Also, yes the Xenos is stronger then the RSX, because it has eDRAM and unified RAM, but as I said before, its an arguement of space, because if you have more space the more options you have, because the Cell can use any amount of those spare SPEs for graphical processing. And when you ment that it had a stronger GPU, I hope you ment in anti aliasing, because thats where the 360's Xenos really shines over the PS3's RSX, because of that unified RAM which allows it to do multiple functions faster than the RSX, but if you are talking about pure speed in genral the RSX is a 550MHz chip, and the Xenos is a 500MHz chip. But alround if you wanna get into pipelines and transactions in graphics, yes the Xenos has a serious advantage mono-a-mono with RSX.
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PostSubject: Re: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:40 am

demondragondude wrote:

Yeah!
Thing is, I may be wrong but from what I've seen on both systems, here are the flaws of both:

Ps3 - doesn't have the best texture detail even in the best looking games. Sure it has amazing graphics but texture detail wise, I've so far not seen one game that looks as good as Perfect Dark Zero on 360. Neutral
360 - It has late texture pop-in. Or whatever it's called...
It happens in Gears, Mass Effect and probably more games I can't remember right now but I think it can handle better detail up close.

So..... I reckon that if most 360 exclusives were ported to ps3, there may be a sliiiight, tinny difference in texture details.
And if 360 got ps3 exclusives they may have that texture pop in.

Neither is that bad tbh.

I have noticed both of those from playing both systems. The late texture pop ups happen but arent really anything major. But the texture detail aint that bad either, so just minor issues. But I think that the texture details is because the GPU on the PS3 is not as strong so the CPU has to take some of the load off of it.
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PostSubject: Re: Can't be done on 360, what does it mean?   Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:09 am

TheJubJub57212 wrote:
demondragondude wrote:

Yeah!
Thing is, I may be wrong but from what I've seen on both systems, here are the flaws of both:

Ps3 - doesn't have the best texture detail even in the best looking games. Sure it has amazing graphics but texture detail wise, I've so far not seen one game that looks as good as Perfect Dark Zero on 360. Neutral
360 - It has late texture pop-in. Or whatever it's called...
It happens in Gears, Mass Effect and probably more games I can't remember right now but I think it can handle better detail up close.

So..... I reckon that if most 360 exclusives were ported to ps3, there may be a sliiiight, tinny difference in texture details.
And if 360 got ps3 exclusives they may have that texture pop in.

Neither is that bad tbh.

I have noticed both of those from playing both systems. The late texture pop ups happen but arent really anything major. But the texture detail aint that bad either, so just minor issues. But I think that the texture details is because the GPU on the PS3 is not as strong so the CPU has to take some of the load off of it.

Yeah maybe.. lol I don't really know for sure tbh. I am no expert on this subject at all XD

Btw I was at a friends house yesterday and he's not played LBP in a few months and the updates took literally a whole hour XD
It was ridiculous. lol
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